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	<title>Comments on: Players Versus Vampires</title>
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	<description>games, stories // digital, analog, everything</description>
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		<title>By: Will Hindmarch</title>
		<link>http://gameplaywright.net/?p=526&#038;cpage=1#comment-10185</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Hindmarch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 21:45:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gameplaywright.net/?p=526#comment-10185</guid>
		<description>Let it be said that Gameplaywright is now, and expects to remain, in favor of digging up old posts.

For what it&#039;s worth, I ran D&amp;D in a fantasy version of Revolution-era North America and it went swimmingly. D&amp;D was not built for it, but since I did it with elves and dwarves and halflings and all that noise, of course a lot of the work was done for me. I don&#039;t give D&amp;D all the credit for that campaign, but when I tell people about it I do tell them that it was &quot;a D&amp;D campaign.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let it be said that Gameplaywright is now, and expects to remain, in favor of digging up old posts.</p>
<p>For what it&#8217;s worth, I ran D&#038;D in a fantasy version of Revolution-era North America and it went swimmingly. D&#038;D was not built for it, but since I did it with elves and dwarves and halflings and all that noise, of course a lot of the work was done for me. I don&#8217;t give D&#038;D all the credit for that campaign, but when I tell people about it I do tell them that it was &#8220;a D&#038;D campaign.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Genghis Philip</title>
		<link>http://gameplaywright.net/?p=526&#038;cpage=1#comment-10184</link>
		<dc:creator>Genghis Philip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 21:35:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gameplaywright.net/?p=526#comment-10184</guid>
		<description>Hey, sorry to dig up ancient posts, but this is a topic dear to my heart as a GM and I only recently found this site through The Escapist.

GMs can control their games, per Jason&#039;s comments above. However-- to say &#039;the GM is the only one, ever ever ever to make decisions about a game&#039; is denying the designer any credit at all. I&#039;ve played plenty of &quot;what world do you want to do a pickup in&quot; games, and run them using homebrew rules. In those cases? Yeah, the GM is solely responsible for what the players can get into.

But for RPGs that are published and have an established, playtested system? Give me a break. Compelling backgrounds are written, tested, and balanced by people who think about collaborative storytelling -for a living-. To act like the design of a game doesn&#039;t effect the stories told is asinine. What the clans, bloodlines, etc. can do is what defines them. Altering those abilities alters the viability of play.

The system, and the core game, matter. It&#039;s what compels chronicles and characters. Maybe it&#039;s only tenuous connection-- maybe you&#039;re setting Exalted in Revolution-era North America-- but there&#039;s balance between classes, threats, and system mechanics that let the game work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, sorry to dig up ancient posts, but this is a topic dear to my heart as a GM and I only recently found this site through The Escapist.</p>
<p>GMs can control their games, per Jason&#8217;s comments above. However&#8211; to say &#8216;the GM is the only one, ever ever ever to make decisions about a game&#8217; is denying the designer any credit at all. I&#8217;ve played plenty of &#8220;what world do you want to do a pickup in&#8221; games, and run them using homebrew rules. In those cases? Yeah, the GM is solely responsible for what the players can get into.</p>
<p>But for RPGs that are published and have an established, playtested system? Give me a break. Compelling backgrounds are written, tested, and balanced by people who think about collaborative storytelling -for a living-. To act like the design of a game doesn&#8217;t effect the stories told is asinine. What the clans, bloodlines, etc. can do is what defines them. Altering those abilities alters the viability of play.</p>
<p>The system, and the core game, matter. It&#8217;s what compels chronicles and characters. Maybe it&#8217;s only tenuous connection&#8211; maybe you&#8217;re setting Exalted in Revolution-era North America&#8211; but there&#8217;s balance between classes, threats, and system mechanics that let the game work.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Hindmarch</title>
		<link>http://gameplaywright.net/?p=526&#038;cpage=1#comment-9329</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Hindmarch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 14:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gameplaywright.net/?p=526#comment-9329</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://forums.white-wolf.com/cs/forums/t/5942.aspx&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://forums.white-wolf.com/cs/forums/t/5942.aspx&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://forums.white-wolf.com/cs/forums/t/5942.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://forums.white-wolf.com/cs/forums/t/5942.aspx</a></p>
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		<title>By: Too Defined A Setting Can Prevent Player Creativity - Gnome Stew, the Game Mastering Blog</title>
		<link>http://gameplaywright.net/?p=526&#038;cpage=1#comment-9257</link>
		<dc:creator>Too Defined A Setting Can Prevent Player Creativity - Gnome Stew, the Game Mastering Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 12:28:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gameplaywright.net/?p=526#comment-9257</guid>
		<description>[...] This is written somewhere in every WW book, but I like the way that Will Hindmarch says it:&#160; “Here’s your guide to the game world,” he says, “and here’s your box of matches.” And I&#8217;ve seen something similar in almost every other roleplaying book I&#8217;ve read [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This is written somewhere in every WW book, but I like the way that Will Hindmarch says it:&nbsp; “Here’s your guide to the game world,” he says, “and here’s your box of matches.” And I&#8217;ve seen something similar in almost every other roleplaying book I&#8217;ve read [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://gameplaywright.net/?p=526&#038;cpage=1#comment-9014</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 02:14:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gameplaywright.net/?p=526#comment-9014</guid>
		<description>Well, I admit, I don&#039;t know anything about branding. That is marketing, and if I ever start to learn something about marketing past the fact that girls in bikinis will not come wash my car if I drink the right kind of beer, please remind me to shoot myself in the head.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I admit, I don&#8217;t know anything about branding. That is marketing, and if I ever start to learn something about marketing past the fact that girls in bikinis will not come wash my car if I drink the right kind of beer, please remind me to shoot myself in the head.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Tidball</title>
		<link>http://gameplaywright.net/?p=526&#038;cpage=1#comment-8985</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Tidball</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 13:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gameplaywright.net/?p=526#comment-8985</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Flexibility is never a bug in any game where there’s a GM.&lt;/i&gt;

Say that a certain amount of flexibility is desirable, sure, but say without reservation that flexibility in any quantity is never undesirable in any game so long as there&#039;s a GM? That&#039;s crazytalk, and I think it undermines your point that flexibility is highly desirable. Too much flexibility eventually overwhelms the point of having a defined game in the first place. It also makes a larger community of players hard to build, or support, because none of them are playing the same game. What&#039;s good for the play group and what&#039;s good for the larger community aren&#039;t always the same, granted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Flexibility is never a bug in any game where there’s a GM.</i></p>
<p>Say that a certain amount of flexibility is desirable, sure, but say without reservation that flexibility in any quantity is never undesirable in any game so long as there&#8217;s a GM? That&#8217;s crazytalk, and I think it undermines your point that flexibility is highly desirable. Too much flexibility eventually overwhelms the point of having a defined game in the first place. It also makes a larger community of players hard to build, or support, because none of them are playing the same game. What&#8217;s good for the play group and what&#8217;s good for the larger community aren&#8217;t always the same, granted.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Hindmarch</title>
		<link>http://gameplaywright.net/?p=526&#038;cpage=1#comment-8978</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Hindmarch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 09:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gameplaywright.net/?p=526#comment-8978</guid>
		<description>Most players associate their play experience with the brand. That matters to the publisher. A public identity for a game persists, even when a game is flexible. 

The spirit of the game, as put forth by the books, still does some work. Otherwise the entry on Malkavia would like this:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Go ahead and put Malkavians back in play. We thought it might be cool if they caught crazy like an infection, but you can get the old Malk clanbook on Ebay if you just want to do that.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Many players view flexibility as a charitable pardon for those players who want to play it weird, I think, than as a broadening of the definition of what &lt;i&gt;Vampire&lt;/i&gt; actually is.

(What is a game&#039;s identity anyway? Is it a description of what&#039;s on the page? Of play as viewed through the campaign? Through the session? Through the combat turn?)

&lt;i&gt;Requiem&lt;/i&gt;&#039;s focus on local power is one of the first things people use to separate it from &lt;i&gt;Masquerade&lt;/i&gt;, even though individual GMs had the freedom to just chuck that idea away. Yet it persists as an important descriptor for the edition, even though we espoused flexibility at the same time. People want a game to have an identity.

Still, it&#039;s entirely possible that I&#039;m wrong about &lt;i&gt;Vampire&lt;/i&gt;. You wouldn&#039;t be the first to say so.

But boiling my essay down to &quot;flexibility is bad&quot; pretty well misses the point. There is conflict between the public perceptions of what &lt;i&gt;Vampire&lt;/i&gt; is as a brand, as a product, as a design statement, and as an instance of play, but that conflict also gave &lt;i&gt;Vampire&lt;/i&gt; incredible life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most players associate their play experience with the brand. That matters to the publisher. A public identity for a game persists, even when a game is flexible. </p>
<p>The spirit of the game, as put forth by the books, still does some work. Otherwise the entry on Malkavia would like this:</p>
<blockquote><p>Go ahead and put Malkavians back in play. We thought it might be cool if they caught crazy like an infection, but you can get the old Malk clanbook on Ebay if you just want to do that.</p></blockquote>
<p>Many players view flexibility as a charitable pardon for those players who want to play it weird, I think, than as a broadening of the definition of what <i>Vampire</i> actually is.</p>
<p>(What is a game&#8217;s identity anyway? Is it a description of what&#8217;s on the page? Of play as viewed through the campaign? Through the session? Through the combat turn?)</p>
<p><i>Requiem</i>&#8217;s focus on local power is one of the first things people use to separate it from <i>Masquerade</i>, even though individual GMs had the freedom to just chuck that idea away. Yet it persists as an important descriptor for the edition, even though we espoused flexibility at the same time. People want a game to have an identity.</p>
<p>Still, it&#8217;s entirely possible that I&#8217;m wrong about <i>Vampire</i>. You wouldn&#8217;t be the first to say so.</p>
<p>But boiling my essay down to &#8220;flexibility is bad&#8221; pretty well misses the point. There is conflict between the public perceptions of what <i>Vampire</i> is as a brand, as a product, as a design statement, and as an instance of play, but that conflict also gave <i>Vampire</i> incredible life.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://gameplaywright.net/?p=526&#038;cpage=1#comment-8962</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 00:35:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gameplaywright.net/?p=526#comment-8962</guid>
		<description>Absolutely, and it&#039;s a monumental accomplishment. Some really great stuff got done during that time. One love, and all that.

But that just makes the essay double super baffling. I mean, the game says &quot;Hey, this could be katanas and blood-driven superpowers, or we could all hang around and have haircuts, you should decide and talk about it&quot;, if a game group has problems because one person has katanas and another person has hair gel, that&#039;s not the game&#039;s problem, and changing the game won&#039;t ever change that problem. I figured you knew that but maybe forgot or something? I don&#039;t know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely, and it&#8217;s a monumental accomplishment. Some really great stuff got done during that time. One love, and all that.</p>
<p>But that just makes the essay double super baffling. I mean, the game says &#8220;Hey, this could be katanas and blood-driven superpowers, or we could all hang around and have haircuts, you should decide and talk about it&#8221;, if a game group has problems because one person has katanas and another person has hair gel, that&#8217;s not the game&#8217;s problem, and changing the game won&#8217;t ever change that problem. I figured you knew that but maybe forgot or something? I don&#8217;t know.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Hindmarch</title>
		<link>http://gameplaywright.net/?p=526&#038;cpage=1#comment-8946</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Hindmarch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 17:00:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gameplaywright.net/?p=526#comment-8946</guid>
		<description>Jason, I&#039;ve got a lot I&#039;d like to write on flexibility in RPG design, but I don&#039;t have the time right now. So just two quick points:

1. If you think the post above boils down to &quot;flexibility is bad in &lt;i&gt;Vampire&lt;/i&gt;,&quot; then perhaps I am a terrible writer.

2. You know that I was the developer of V:TR for three years, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason, I&#8217;ve got a lot I&#8217;d like to write on flexibility in RPG design, but I don&#8217;t have the time right now. So just two quick points:</p>
<p>1. If you think the post above boils down to &#8220;flexibility is bad in <i>Vampire</i>,&#8221; then perhaps I am a terrible writer.</p>
<p>2. You know that I was the developer of V:TR for three years, right?</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://gameplaywright.net/?p=526&#038;cpage=1#comment-8943</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 16:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gameplaywright.net/?p=526#comment-8943</guid>
		<description>What I mean is this:

Flexibility is never a bug in any game where there&#039;s a GM. Not ever, never ever, not once.  It has never happened. It never will.  Flexibility gives the GM the tools to make the campaign what they want it to be.  If a game goes off the rails it is because the players didn&#039;t buy into the GM&#039;s vision of the campaign - either the GM didn&#039;t explain it right, or a player didn&#039;t get it, or the GM changed it halfway through, or someone is up to mischief, not because the designer made some mistake boo hoo hoo. Or if a game stays pleasingly within the sweet spot of what the group desires, it is not because the designer made some brilliant move, it is because the group has communicated well and support each other. Fuck the designer, the GM is the one responsible for virtually all of what&#039;s identified in this essay as the content of Vampire. 

This is particularly not an issue when the flexibility is pointed out by the game itself, over and over, as it has with every edition of Vampire since the very first. Those &quot;pick a theme for your game&quot; sections aren&#039;t optional ya know! Those essays in the back about how to run it - you know, the contradictory ones? - those are a giant 100 foot tall sign saying &quot;this game can be run in many different ways&quot;. Requiem is even better at this than previous editions. Ever run an all-one-clan game? Did ya do it before Requiem? I did, but I felt like a rebel when I was doing it. In Requiem, it feels like a well-supported design decision. That&#039;s flexibility. It is never, ever wrong, period, if you have a game with a GM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I mean is this:</p>
<p>Flexibility is never a bug in any game where there&#8217;s a GM. Not ever, never ever, not once.  It has never happened. It never will.  Flexibility gives the GM the tools to make the campaign what they want it to be.  If a game goes off the rails it is because the players didn&#8217;t buy into the GM&#8217;s vision of the campaign &#8211; either the GM didn&#8217;t explain it right, or a player didn&#8217;t get it, or the GM changed it halfway through, or someone is up to mischief, not because the designer made some mistake boo hoo hoo. Or if a game stays pleasingly within the sweet spot of what the group desires, it is not because the designer made some brilliant move, it is because the group has communicated well and support each other. Fuck the designer, the GM is the one responsible for virtually all of what&#8217;s identified in this essay as the content of Vampire. </p>
<p>This is particularly not an issue when the flexibility is pointed out by the game itself, over and over, as it has with every edition of Vampire since the very first. Those &#8220;pick a theme for your game&#8221; sections aren&#8217;t optional ya know! Those essays in the back about how to run it &#8211; you know, the contradictory ones? &#8211; those are a giant 100 foot tall sign saying &#8220;this game can be run in many different ways&#8221;. Requiem is even better at this than previous editions. Ever run an all-one-clan game? Did ya do it before Requiem? I did, but I felt like a rebel when I was doing it. In Requiem, it feels like a well-supported design decision. That&#8217;s flexibility. It is never, ever wrong, period, if you have a game with a GM.</p>
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